Discussion Category:  HPLC Systems

trying to compare to Waters UPLC

I am in the market for a LC/MS/MS system and just can not decide between the Agilent 1200RR and the Waters Acquity UPLC system. Any suggestions?
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MedeaLabs
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LabWrenchManagerReply by
LabWrenchManager
Have you considered the new Agilent 1290? It is an impressive new instrument. It can handle both conventional and UPLC, with specs generally exceeding the Acquity systems. We have placed it high on our priority list for our next HPLC instrument purchase. This answer was submitted to LabWrench and provided by [url=http://www.linkedin.com/groupAnswers?viewQuestionAndAnswers=&discussionID=21944356&gid=93188&commentID=17674333&trk=view_disc]Richard Hartwick[/url]

Melanie Playne
LabWrench Product Manager

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avatar placemarkReply by
Pete Claise
Hello MedeaLabs, My colleauge Liz Hodgdon read your post and wanted me to pass you the following message: First let me state that I am the Product Manager for ACQUITY UPLC. It would be good to know why you are looking at one or the other, what do you use today and why and what is it about your existing LC that could be improved? Then I will list some considerations. The ACQUITY and RRLC are systems built to run smaller particle columns, to a higher or lesser degree. Smaller particle columns give better resolution and if length and particle size ratios are preserved the same quality of separation can be achieved with a smaller ID and shorter length in less time. This is why you know about ACQUITY UPLC Systems, the small particles are a proven way to improve LC separations. The small particle columns available with smaller ID formats 2.1 or 1.0 mm that are ideal for MS, as the optimal linear flow rates are lower for smaller columns and improved separation (narrower more concentrated peaks) at lower flows improves ionization efficiency, there is less competition as there is less mobile phase to compete with. Because the RRLC has a large bandspread to establish the same resolution with smaller particles columns larger ID's are required ( 3 or 4.6 mm) hence higher flow rates are used and this impacts ionization. Waters has the wide and increasing range of selectivity in the available columns and all UPLC columns are available in HPLC particle sizes with identical selectivity which makes transfer simple. I would state that the RRLC is more related to the feature set of an HPLC, while ACQUITY UPLC has higher pressure limits and much lower bandspread dispersion that means it can run traditional HPLC columns and columns with lengths down to 30mm and ID's down to 1.0 mm - making it far more flexible. There is also a sister product to ACQUITY - the new H-Class, a quaternary based higher pressure lower dispersion system. So how can you decide amongst all these systems? So how can you decide? You need to ask yourself what is it that you want to do and what challenges analytically are you trying to address? Why are you looking at the two systems? Are your current separations too slow, what cycletime would be ideal? Is greater resolution important to you? Do you need to realize significant solvent savings? Do you run complex or straightforward separations? DO you have existing HPLC methods that you will have to continue to run? What detectors have to be supported, UV, as well as MS, what else? Are you involved in method development - do you need a flexible system to support this? What is your current system and how steep a learning curve/work flow change can you and your colleagues tolerate? What is software is used to control your systems today? What return of investment would a system have to justify? Would higher efficiency columns that use less solvent be important when you look at your next new method? Check out our web site – “User Voice” and listen to the MS user testimonials about what these systems have been able to do in their hands. ( [url]http://www.waters.com/waters/nav.htm?cid=10129741[/url] ), then I would contact Waters and have them take you through your options and to be fair do the same with Agilent. Liz
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MedeaLabs
Hello fellow HPLCers: thanks for all the comments. They have been really helpful. I wanted to address some of Liz, at Waters, questions. First of, I am working closely with your San Diego/L.A. rep and have been to Oakland to check out the system there. We are a brand new start-up and therefore don't have any existing methods or equipment we need to change. Instead, we want to start of right. Our main goal is to have a system that can be fool proof to handle for a junior technician, with easy set up of new methods for the detection of well known pesticides. Nothing new or novel on the science side, just on the service we provide (too much info to go into here). We would like to process 100 customer samples a day with the option to do more in the near future (alternating columns?) We don't even need to be super sensitive. EPA pesticide residues regulations are on a ppm basis. Just quick. Oh. And of course pricing/financing is important (I've been driving your sales rep crazy with that one :-) ) I hope this answers some of Liz' questions and maybe leads to some more suggestions from the community. Again, thanks, everyone.
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avatar placemarkReply by
Bryan Evans
I would look at Shimadzu and Agilent HPLCs. These are on the front end for the other MS manufacturers.
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avatar placemarkReply by
rindtr
Why are you focused on only the LC part, won't you think to purshase the system as a whole. Practically it can be advantageous to get the LC and the MS/MS part from the same manufacturer in order to guarantee your service supplier care for both parts. otherwise there may be a conflict between two services resulting interruptions in your work. the LC-MS/MS systems that can be suggested are the Agilent 6460, Waters Xevo, Thermo Vantage. you should plot a cost-benefit diagram. when cost is taken into consideration the bottom line is agilent and the top line is the waters but if it is eas of use, visa versa. good luck
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avatar placemarkReply by
MedeaLabs
you're right. I will purchase the whole system from one manufacturer. I have 75% made up my mind which MS I like better and figuring out the LC was going to help me decide on the overall system I should get.
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Diane Sherwood
Agilent has an excellent solution for LC-MS-MS analysis of pesticides based on the 6400 Series Triple Quads and the 12xx Series HPLC's. The Pesticides Application Kit (G1733AA) for the Agilent 6400 Series Triple Quadrupole LC/MS contains a Dynamic MRM Database with more than 750 pesticides. The database provides pesticide names and MRM transitions (including fragmentor and collision energy). An LC column and pesticides test mixes of representative analytes are included in the application kits so you won’t waste time or money buying individual components. A DVD with method and data files, application note, and quick-start guide enables a fast start up by providing analysis examples of pesticides screening using the database. The 120xx HPLC's include the 1200, 1200 RRLC and the new 1290 Infinity. All are German engineered to be rugged, reliable, easily maintained, and high performing. For fast analysis, the 1200 RRLC or the 1290 are your best choices. I'd like to discuss your needs in more detail with you and help you choose the instrument that provides you with the best value - performance for the price. Please contact me at diane_sherwood@agilent.com.
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C2Reply by
C2
If you are a start up and looking to get off to the right start and have success right off the bat with methods. I would look at the AB MS with a Shimadzu HPLC based on their Cliquid software and iMethods. Full methods including sample prep, MS and HPLC conditions. C2
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avatar placemarkReply by
rheteric
Hi MedeaLabs, It looks like you've been shopping for a while so perhaps this is all water under the bridge by now. If not, then do yourself a favor and contact your local Shimadzu or AB Sciex rep. Although AB deos not make the HPLC components, their service providers are trained to perform installation and maintenance on Shimadzu hardware. In essence, they are a full-service provider operating independently. LC performance-wise, Shimadzu Nexera touches on all your criteria. Shimadzu still remains the leader with the fastest injection cycle and least amount of carryover. It takes only 10 seconds to make an injection and the needle design is extremely inert so rinsing is either minimized or eliminated completely. Nexera has increased pumping capacity up to 19,000 psi at up to 3 mL per minute. In the rare event you need >3 mL per minute then you can go up to 5mL/min at a max pressure of about 12,000. This is the most capacity of any vendor and it does not come at the expense of reliability or ruggedness; these pumps get the same milage as non-UHPLC pumps. Nexera has the ability to be configured as either a fixed loop injector, like an Acquity, or as a loop in the flow path, like an Agilent. Typically you will get better carryover performance with a loop in the flow path but if you are looking for ultimate throughput and peak capacity then the fixed loop will minimize band broadening. With Nexera the choice is yours by simply rearranging your plumbing. Moreover, if you want the ability to multiplex then you can always add AB's MPX software and double your throughput. Your support team is very comprehensive with many resources available from both Shimadzu and AB so you should not be wanting for more attention. And in the perspective of a new startup lab, you simply cannot get a better instrument value. The price is very competitive and you are welcome to come to a PM and troubleshooting training course so your post sales costs are very manageable as well. Finally, no one has more system flexibility or versatility. Nexera has truly put the power back into the hands of the analyst. Check it out! Best, Eric
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LabWrenchManagerReply by
LabWrenchManager
Waters has the H Class. It does LC and UPLC and is quaternary. This answer was provided a Software Development Engineer at [url=http://www.waters.com/]Waters[/url] - Thank You Melanie Playne LabWrench Product Manager

Melanie Playne
LabWrench Product Manager

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